Thank God for Bush, the genocide is coming to an end

Search

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
2,857
Tokens
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate on Tuesday voted to ban the practice that critics call partial birth abortion, sending President Bush a measure that supporters and foes alike said could alter the future of U.S. abortion rights. A court challenge is certain.

Years in the making, the bill imposes the most far-reaching limits on abortion since the Supreme Court in 1973 confirmed a woman's right to end a pregnancy.

"This is an enormous day. It's been a long seven-year fight about the issue of partial birth abortion," said Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kansas. He was a leader of the drive to end abortions, generally carried out in the second or third trimester, in which a fetus is partially delivered before being killed.

"This is indeed a historic day," said Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-California, lead opponent of the legislation, "because for the first time in history Congress is banning a medical procedure that is considered medically necessary by physicians."

The 64-34 vote came three weeks after the House passed the same measure by 281-142.

Bush had urged Congress to pass the ban, which Republicans had pursued since the GOP captured the House in 1995, and the president had said he would sign it into law.

But opponents said the first federal ban on abortion since the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision was unconstitutional and, like similar state laws, would be struck down.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-California, an opponent of the legislation: "I see what this is about ... this is about politics."
The president, said Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey "will become the first United States president to criminalize a safe medical procedure." Doctors who violate the ban would be subject to prison terms of up to two years.

The two sides differed widely on the frequency and definition of partial birth abortion, which is not a formal medical term.

The bill defines partial birth abortion as delivery of a fetus "until, in the case of a headfirst presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of the breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus."

Opponents question goal
Opponents of the legislation argued that, as defined in the bill, it could apply to several safe and common procedures, and that the real goal of the legislation was to erode overall abortion rights.

"I see what this is about ... this is about politics," said Boxer. "I never dreamed I'd be down here with senators who think they know more than doctors."

Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pennsylvania, chief sponsor of the bill: "We can't allow this kind of brutality to corrupt us."
But Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pennsylvania, chief sponsor of the bill, said the procedure was both inhumane and unnecessary. "We can't allow this kind of brutality to corrupt us. It makes a much more brutal and harsher country if we stand here and say, yes, for whatever reason, we are going to allow this to occur."

Several groups, including the National Abortion Federation and the Center for Reproductive Rights, plan to challenge the measure in court as soon as it is signed into law. "We will take this fight from the Capitol to the courtroom to safeguard the lives and health of women," said Vicki Saporta, president of the National Abortion Federation.

Planned Parenthood Federation of America President Gloria Feldt said her group would seek an injunction preventing the legislation from taking effect.

A key focus will be the Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling in 2000 that a similar Nebraska law was unconstitutional because the definition of the practice was too vague -- making it unclear to doctors what procedures were illegal -- and didn't have an exception concerning risks to the health of the mother to go along with an exception for when the life of the mother was in danger.

Santorum argued that supporters had met those constitutional questions by tightening the definition and offering extensive findings that the procedure was never needed to protect the health of the mother.

President Clinton twice vetoed partial birth bills on the grounds that they did not include health exceptions.

Anti-abortion leaders said the coming court battle would have far-reaching ramifications.

"In 2000, five Supreme Court justices said that Roe v. Wade guaranteed the right of abortionists to perform partial-birth abortions whenever they see fit. But Congress is now inviting the Supreme Court to re-examine that extreme and inhumane decision," said Douglas Johnson, legislative director for the National Right to Life Committee.

------------------------------

Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly for the White House
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
15,270
Tokens
Truth,
It's only a step - but a step in the right direction.
applaudit.gif


btw - there is more to this than Bush, there was a House and Senate involved
icon_wink.gif
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,228
Tokens
All you will do is force it abroad to Canada and mexico and into the backstreets.

Whatever anyone thinks about it, its never going to go away.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2000
Messages
15,635
Tokens
Yeah.. the same pro choice people thatare for sticking a pair of scissors in the back of a babyy head and then sucking the brains out...are basically the same people that go to candle light vigils for serial killers on death row...whats wrong with this picture???
"pro choice" just another word for baby killing everytime I hear that it reminds me of the euphomism "The final solution".
Like the libs call criminal aliens a new word "undocumented workers" puhleeeze
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,228
Tokens
And those same people that go all goo goo on abortion wave the flag high when they're carpet bombing gooks and towelheads.
puhleeeze
 

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
2,857
Tokens
Lander,

I know the house and senate are involved but Clinton refused to sign the exact bill when he was in office.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
15,270
Tokens
eek,
I'm anti-war and anti-abortion. Call me crazy, but killing IS killing - regardless of age, size or origin AND it's wrong.

Stereotyping isn't going to resolve this (same for you Patriot).

TT,
Good point about Clinton. This makes exactly 2 things Bush has done that I agree with - trying to stop reverse-racism (ahem affirmative action) and trying to stop baby killing (abortion).
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,765
Tokens
eek is right, to a point. I believe there will still be partial-birth abortions but this bill will cause much less of them to happen for fear of legal action.

There is still the bigger picture to consider here though. I was trying to think how easily our society is swayed and was trying to think "what is the worst thing our society would accept?". I then thought we would never accept human sacrifice but that is what partial-birth abortion really is.

Western Society used to accept slavery as being acceptable. Only when our society evolved into not accepting this was it done away with. I've heard abortion is this century's slavery. When will we evolve to refuse to accept that late-term abortions are not acceptable?
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,228
Tokens
OK, I was stereosniping there.

On the more serious subject of this thread.

I thought the proportion of these type of late abortions was tiny, which would make it easier for most of the people involved to go abroad, since its relatively rare.
(and you say you miscarried when you come back)

The real deal is that the pro-choice people think this is the thin end of the wedge, and won't allow it.
Abortion is a very polarised subject in the US.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
It's not genocide.

Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
Date: 1944
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
- geno·cid·al /"je-n&-'sI-d&l/ adjective
(Taken from www.m-w.com)
 

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
2,857
Tokens
genocide
noun
the murder of a whole group of people, especially a whole nation, race or religious group.

Cambridge Advanced Dictionary

Babies fall under a whole group of people.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
I would nevertheless replace "genocide" with "abortion" as the title of this thread.

Something like "annihilation" would do well, and throw "systematic" in there as well.

How about this: Keep abortion legal but apply a penalty to repeat "offenders" (term used ever-so-loosely) so as to phase out those who use it for birth control only?
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
8,781
Tokens
I would like to hear what these supporters say after stories come out that a woman died because she was denied access to a life-saving procedure? Will they say "well who cares about her other kids and family, we at least didn't kill the baby". This certainly wasn't a procedure that women wanting birth control depended on.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
15,270
Tokens
Bill,
Using extreme examples hardly constitutes a pro-abortion argument.

I am anti-abortion, but in favor of it in cases of insist, rape and/or a mother's psyical health (notice I bolded physical, because some whores have made the case for partial birth abortions based on financial health & emotional health ... puhleeeeez murderers.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
83
Tokens
Murdering a viable yet dependent person is a lifesaving procedure? the only fact involved here is that a babys life is snuffed out .
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
699
Tokens
Metallica "Harvester of Sorrow"

My Life Suffocates
Planting Seeds of Hate
I've Loved, Turned to Hate
Trapped Far Beyond My Fate
I Give
You Take
This Life That I Forsake
Been Cheated of My Youth
You Turned this Lie to Truth

Anger
Misery
You'll Suffer unto Me

Harvester of Sorrow
Language of the Mad
Harvester of Sorrow

Pure Black Looking Clear
My Work Is Done Soon Here
Try Getting Back to Me
Get Back Which Used to Be
Drink up
Shoot in
Let the Beatings Begin
Distributor of Pain
Your Loss Becomes My Gain

Anger
Misery
You'll Suffer unto Me

Harvester of Sorrow
Language of the Mad
Harvester of Sorrow

All Have Said Their Prayers
Invade Their Nightmares
See into My Eyes
You'll Find Where Murder Lies

Infanticide

Harvester of Sorrow
Language of the Mad
Harvester of Sorrow
Language of the Mad
Harvester of Sorrow

Related:
Metallica Lyrics
And Justice For All Lyrics
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
15,270
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by greg:
Murdering a viable yet dependent person is a lifesaving procedure? the only fact involved here is that a babys life is snuffed out .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe there are rare cases where this is true, although I'm not a medical expert by any means.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
2,857
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WildBill:
I would like to hear what these supporters say after stories come out that a woman died because she was denied access to a life-saving procedure? Will they say "well who cares about her other kids and family, we at least didn't kill the baby". This certainly wasn't a procedure that women wanting birth control depended on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WildBill,

In the bill, if a woman faces a life threatening situation she can have the baby aborted. Coming from you, thought you would have known this.

------------------------------

Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly for the White House
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2000
Messages
15,635
Tokens
Thats the whole problem with "pro choice".Its a flowery name for baby killing and lack of personal responsibility.
It was getting to the point where science is finding out if the child has a defect,then using abortion as an acceptble answer...What next?? If the kid has red hair.. or a hair lip its a canidate for abortion??? Or its not a boy that the parents want so you abort it??...How about not being of pure blood??..Whats next a Master Race??????For being "progressive" you libs sound a lot like Germany circa 1938...think about it.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
8,781
Tokens
I am far from a liberal, unless my pro-choice view is the only thing one needs to be made liberal.

This whole argument is insanity. Doctors, real ones not those that operate in a back alley, don't give this procedure just because parents find out the child's genetics, nor do they take the concept of doing this lightly. Santorum is flat out lying if he thinks the mother's life isn't in danger, basically the studies he refers to basically say the mother has to be near death before its considered saving her life. The procedure as Congress passed was performed less than 500 times last year and in every case it was due to complications which could have put the mother's life in jeopardy. The supposed work arounds to the Constitution are so unworkable, it will once again have a doctor declare that death is imminent before the procedure is done and in those cases death will follow at times, you watch. And when it happens I hope they send pictures of the widowed family members as a way of saying thanks to the Republicans.

These ruthless Congresspeople want you to believe that it should come down to a pronouncement of certain death before a trained doctor is allowed to make a judgement call. NO ONE wants to have this particular procedure done NO ONE. Its done in extreme cases and for important medical reasons, not because someone decided they didn't want a baby. And as I have said numerous times to no ones response, the other "humane" way to complete this operation is to induce labor and certain death for the fetus, which could become a procedure done in response to this law. This law has little to do with "barbaric" methods, its a smear campaign by Republicans to chip away at what little they can because the courts and the majority of adults in this country won't let them have their way.

Ok I am done, I know I get jumped every time I post on this subject because it seems the forum's favorite little tiff. Go ahead chew me out all you want, I will once again say to each his own opinion and as long as sanity and the public's will is protected in this country, women's lives hopefully won't be put in danger due to some people's religious zeal.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,167
Messages
13,564,827
Members
100,753
Latest member
aw8vietnam
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com